Law students and new lawyers have a variety of things to worry about, from finding a job in this job market, to figuring out what kind of law they'd like to practice, especially with rapidly emerging areas offering opportunities for specialization.
Léna Taylor is Director of Student Programs at McCarthy Tétrault's Montreal office.
Léna Taylor is Director of Student Programs at McCarthy Tétrault's Montreal office.
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Léna Taylor is Director of Student Programs at McCarthy Tétrault's Montreal office. She is responsible for the recruitment process, the hiring and the evaluation of students and articling students.
Before joining McCarthy Tétrault, Ms. Taylor practiced business law for major law firms in Montreal, London and Paris.
She obtained her BCL and LL.B. degrees from McGill University in 1995 and went on to obtain an LL.M. degree in public international law from the London School of Economics in 1998. She was called to the Québec bar in 1996.
Ms. Taylor answers questions about what law firms are looking for and what kind of opportunities they are offering students.
Update: Ms. Taylor took the time to answer those questions that came in before the discussion was closed, but for which there wasn't enough time. Where are the opportunities? Now, let's get to readers' questions.
Jerry Kitich from Hamilton Canada writes: I'm an older part-time student, in my early 40s. I'm closing in on my BComm and hope to get my CA after that.
I still have this urge to go to law school at some point but I may not graduate until I'm almost 50. Is that too old as far as my chances to get into a Bay Street firm or will my BComm and CA be seen as attractive to such an employer? As well, I have many years' experience as a social service caseworker.
I am interested because I like law, I did well on both my business law courses and I would likely try to specialize in tax law as it would be a natural thing to do with a CA. I also would like to be able to represent cases in tax court which I basically cannot do with a CA.
Taylor: Firms obviously cannot discriminate, amongst others, on grounds of age.
In your situation, there are a few things you may want to consider. First, you may have to reassure the law firms you are applying to that you will not have a problem taking instructions from more experienced, yet younger, lawyers. You may find it difficult moving from a role where you are respected as a professional to one as an articling student. Second, you should be ready to promote your experience and explain how your skills will be relevant to that law firm's business. Stress the additional experience and maturity you will bring to the firm, which should enable you to learn more quickly, for example.
Other readers have also asked how their past experience will be considered, and to tell you the truth, it may well depend on the area of practice you are interested in. In your case, you may want to consider doing a master's degree in taxation after your law degree, rather than getting your CA without practising as an accountant. In this specialized area, you may want to contact practising tax lawyers for advice on the best course of action to take.
Sondra Rebenchuk from Toronto Canada writes: Hello Ms. Taylor.
My question is regarding the importance of age. More specifically, would law firms consider my relative youth as an advantage? I am a first-year student at Osgoode Hall, and I just celebrated my 20th birthday. As a result, I don't have the same work experience as my peers, but my marks are good. Is my age something about me that a firm would be interested in knowing and that I should make known, or is it irrelevant?
Thank you,
Sondra Rebenchuk
Taylor: In Québec, a majority of law students graduate at about the same age as you will because they are not required to have an undergraduate degree before going into law school. They move on to become excellent lawyers and I don't see why that would be any different in Ontario or elsewhere in the country.
As long as you have the general qualities law firms are looking for, you will do fine. For example, at McCarthy Tétrault, the candidates we recruit need to be excellent team players, smart problem-solvers and have a sincere interest in learning about our clients' businesses. You don't need to have law-related experience to demonstrate this, often life experience is just as convincing.
Also, if you feel you have less experience than your peers, you may want to choose a firm that places a lot of importance on career development and mentoring. At our firm, for example, our students and lawyers are paired with mentors who are there to facilitate their integration into firm life, be a source of advice and guidance, and, from time to time, a source of work as well.
Calla Annan from Atlantic Canada Canada writes: What options are available for students who want to practise law with government (either federal or provincial departments of justice) but are faced with declining hire-back rates?
I do not want to practice corporate/commercial law, and I am extremely interested in administrative law, but have been told by government lawyers that they are not even hiring back their current articling clerks. If I do accept an articling position with the government, where can I go from there if I don't get hired back?
Thank you.
Taylor: I unfortunately am not familiar with hiring practices in the public service sector.
Perhaps you can discuss this issue with your career development office or with the government agencies you are interested in working for. Don't be afraid to be persistent and strive for the career you want.
Guy Smiley from Toronto Canada writes: Why is there such a substantial focus on a person's experience with charitable work such as pro bono volunteering, habitat for humanity housing projects, or legal aid clinics, when at the end of the day firms like McCarthy Tetrault are in essence business firms where the vast majority of the lawyers will be working for corporate clients? Is it not, really, a red herring? Shouldn't students really just be focused on a great education and great grades? The 'it looks good on your resume' maxim - should that not be tempered?
Taylor I don't believe employers are looking for volunteering or charitable work per se. It's more what that type of experience demonstrates about a person that is important.
For example, if you participate in a legal aid clinic, you will have to deal with clients that may sometimes be demanding, or to whom you will have to explain the law in layman's terms. This also happens in big (and small) firms and therefore experience of this kind will be valued by employers. Any business-related experience that is akin to the work we do at the firm would also be of interest.
As for grades, they are obviously relevant and they may be the only truly objective criteria we have when looking at an application.
However, law firms need more than a person who can do well on an exam. When interviewing candidates, we are looking for people that are enthusiastic about their law careers and that have good people skills which will help them relate to clients. This can be demonstrated with volunteer involvement, as you mentioned, past work experience and even personal life experience. Many skills that are useful to lawyers go well beyond what can be learned sitting in a lecture hall.
Finally, for some firms, pro bono work is simply part of their values, like it is at McCarthy Tétrault.
Jay Lin from Ottawa Canada writes: Hi, Ms. Taylor.
What would you advise second-year students to do in the summer prior to on-campus recruitment in the fall? What kind of job experience and grades are usually looked at?
Can students apply in their last year rather than second-last year?
Jay Lin from Ottawa Canada writes: Hi, Ms. Taylor.
What would you advise second-year students to do in the summer prior to on-campus recruitment in the fall? What kind of job experience and grades are usually looked at?
Can students apply in their last year rather than second-last year?
Taylor: Since we don't have this on-campus recruitment process for summer positions in Québec, I've asked my colleague Ari Blicker, Director of Student Programs (Ontario Region) to help me out on this one.
Here is his answer for our Toronto office: ''Work experience and grades are both important for summer positions. Try to find an intellectually challenging job, ideally but not necessarily in the legal and/or business field, that gives you a fair amount of responsibility and the chance to build your analytical and problem solving skills. Community involvement is also looked upon favourably here. In addition, it is helpful if the student had an opportunity to work in a team environment. Our firm is all about teamwork, both within our individual offices and across all our offices. With regard to grades, you need to be a strong performer academically; many (but not all) of our students are at the top of their class. From time to time, in addition to our summer students who return to article, we need a few additional students to round out our articling group, in which case we participate in the articling recruitment round and accept applications from students who are heading into their final year of law school. We do not need to do this every year, however.''
Chris Mal from Ottawa Canada writes: I've been having trouble landing an articling position and I'm wondering where I can improve. I often get second and even third interviews but never the position. I seek feedback, although it's always positive. I have had a few years of work experience (about 3 yrs., mainly in legal research and policy analysis). I have gained valuable practical experience through my work and by travelling and living in another country. My hope was this would show to law firms that I am well balanced and ready to begin a legal career. Aside from this, I'm humble, well liked and have good academic standing. Perhaps it's simply just back luck and the right position is around the corner? Thanks, CM.
Taylor: It is difficult to give advice without having more details about the types of firms you have met with or about your application itself.
I believe asking for feedback is a very good initiative on your part. You did mention, however, that you are humble, and perhaps that translates as a lack of confidence during interviews. Sometimes it is difficult for employers to choose between many able candidates. If you can find something about yourself that sets you apart from others and communicate that effectively and with confidence, then perhaps that could give you the extra edge you're looking for. You could also try consulting the career development office at your alma matter.
Jonathan Kleiman from Toronto Canada writes: At this point, what are my chances of finding an articling position for 2009 at a good firm? I was too selective, and now I'm without a position.
Taylor: I can only talk from experience about big law firms but most top tier law firms have already hired their 2009 articling students. Perhaps you would have a better chance with smaller or boutique firms.
emily patterson from Canada writes: Are the recruitment parameters different depending on the city, other than the obvious need for ability in the French language in Quebec?
Taylor: It probably depends on the law firm.
At McCarthy Tétrault, attracting top students who will contribute to the development of our firm is essential to our long-term success. We have a dedicated professional resources team that works together nationally and have streamlined our recruitment practices and requirements.
Therefore, I would say that our selection criteria are the same across our different offices (see examples given in an answer to a previous question), but what draws a student to one office rather than another will be different. For example, candidates who apply to our Calgary office will most probably have an interest in the energy sector, whereas students applying to our Québec City office may want to join because of its strong project finance practice.
I would strongly suggest that you do the necessary research for each firm you are applying to, to make sure you address the various parameters for each one.
Matthew X from Canada writes: How concerned are you with the law school an applicant attended?
Taylor:At McCarthy Tétrault, we do not have preferred law schools. We have lawyers from many law schools across Canada. In Québec, we recruit from faculties that offer a civil law program.
jim vlahos from Canada writes: With all of these emerging areas of practice outside the traditional legal realm, isn't it important for law students to also think 'outside of the firm', such as in-house counsel?
Taylor: Absolutely. Before you even start looking for a job, the best advice I can give is to get to know yourself. Ask yourself questions such as:
- What areas of practice am I interested in?
- What am I looking for in the practice of law/what do I prefer (contact with clients, pleading before the courts, research and drafting, etc.)?
- What kind of work environment is best suited to my personality (private practice, public service, teaching, in-house)?
- Where do I want to work (in the city, region, abroad)?
A law degree allows you to do so many interesting things, you should not limit yourself to one option but rather try to explore all that is available before you make a choice - and even afterwards it is possible to change your mind. Personally, when I was in law school, I never thought I would be getting into professional resources, but here I am and loving it.
Nadia Allibhai from Calgary Canada writes: Dear Lena,
Thank you for offering this session. Recently, there has been a large influx of Canadian students obtaining their LLB in the UK and then returning to Canada to complete the NCA process. In your opinion, are firms open to the idea of students who have completed their LLB abroad? Furthermore, are there specific things that students completing the LLB abroad should do during Law School in order to enhance their applications to firms?
I also noticed from your bio that you worked with Lawyers Without Borders. Can you provide some details of how someone could get involved and share your experiences with them?
Thanks for your time.
Nadia
Taylor: Being in Québec, I cannot speak from experience on this one and am not aware of the curriculum of UK LLBs. However, I understand from discussing this with Ari Blicker, my collegue from our Toronto office, that many firms accept applications from UK schools. As with students in the Canadian law schools, it is important that students do well academically and also immerse themselves in school life and build up good work experience, in order to be as competitive as possible. Again, I am not an expert on this and it may be better to contact the firms or employers you are interested in directly to find out what their position is on this issue.
As for Lawyers without Borders, I have not personally worked with the organization. Rather, McCarthy Tétrault and LWBC entered into a three-year partnership in 2008, making our firm a "Partner without Borders" of LWBC, the Canadian branch of the Lawyers without Borders world movement. Two of our lawyers, David E. Roberge and Cindy Vaillancourt, of our Montréal office, just came back from a mission in Haiti where they participated in an environmental law training mission in partnership with LWBC, World University Service of Canada and the State University of Haiti. You can read more about their experience and our firm's pro bono involvement on our website at: http://www.mccarthy.ca/community_and_pro_bono_work.aspx.
GlobeCampus editor Christina Varga: Unfortunately, that's all the time we have for today. I'm sorry we couldn't get to all of your questions today. GlobeCampus will arrange to have your other further questions answered — check back here in the next week or so.
Thank you for your thoughts, Ms. Taylor, and thanks to readers for sending in your questions and comments.
Taylor: Thanks again for having me. If I may add one last comment, students should not hesitate to contact their career development office or other students or alumni from their law schools to ask for advice about a particular law firm or work environment. Sometimes first-hand experience can be most helpful.
Update: Ms. Taylor took the time to answer those questions that came in before the discussion was closed, but for which there was no time on the day of the discussion. Read her answers here. Thanks again, Ms. Taylor.
