The nerd-geek-dork continuum
In last week's post-blog dialogue, reader Shane mentioned his difficulty in pinpointing the essence of "nerd" and asked for my definition of the word. It turned out to be a much simpler exercise than I had originally thought, for in the singularly reflexive moment that followed, I realized that one could define a nerd as someone who gleefully obliges when asked to define something.
Indeed when the intellectual gauntlet is thrown down, it's the nerd amongst us who will rise, or, more accurately, hyperactively scramble, to the occasion. We are incapable of resisting a mental challenge, whether it's a simple matter of seeking out a definition or solving a puzzle, or something more involved, like calculating whether or not it's possible to have a non-overnight transpacific commercial airline flight whose entire journey takes place in daylight hours* or building a trebuchet to see how far you can fling a car.**
This compulsive need to exercise one's mental faculties stems from the nerd's defining characteristic, namely an unabashed curiosity - the insatiable and lifelong desire to learn about anything and everything. In fact, I suspect that many of us nerds have shared the same existential crisis, which arises not from the sudden grasp of our own mortality, but rather from the resulting realization that we haven't got time enough to read every book in the library.
Regardless, we soldier on and try to cram as much learning into the day as possible. We're the people that read each and every panel at the museum (and sometimes correct them). We bought iPhones because it means we're never more than five seconds away from being able to check something on Wikipedia. We've vetoed potential partners who we felt were not sufficiently excited at the prospect of going to the science centre on a first date. And we're the people you don't ever, ever want to play Trivial Pursuit with.
No column on the definition of "nerd" would be complete without a few brief words on the notion of the "geek" and the "dork". A nerd is not always a geek, but a geek is always a nerd. Neither geeks nor nerds are necessarily dorks, but dorks do occur at a greater frequency within the nerd-geek subpopulation. Follow me?
A geek is someone who exhibits the archetypal nerd trait of compulsively pursuing new information; however, whereas the pure nerd is a knowledge generalist, equally fascinated by dinosaurs, art history and teaching themselves Cantonese, a pure geek tends to focus their dogged learning on a single subject area. These subjects are often scientific and/or technical in nature, and include things like computer programming, backyard engineering, and writing songs about Kirk and Spock.
A dork is someone with markedly impaired social skills - the person that regularly stumbles, mumbles and fumbles through even the simplest task. Napoleon Dynamite writ large. There is almost certainly a higher proportion of dorks within the nerd ranks than one would observe in the population at large, and I suspect the majority of these cases come about as a result of the young nerd focusing on their intellectual betterment to such a degree that they completely fail to take notice of the world around them.
Many of us spent a good portion of our childhoods entirely unaware of the codes and behaviours that ruled the school playground - we were too busy organizing our dinosaur sticker collection by taxa to care about which lunchbox was in fashion this year, which bit of playground equipment was the place to be seen at, or whether Velcro shoes were a clear tip-off that their wearer was a loser. By high school, the nerd's keen powers of observation had kicked in and heretofore unknown subtleties of social interaction came to light. We dipped our toes into the sea of adolescent relationships and eventually figured out how to swim. The dorks, on the other hand, tripped over a piece of driftwood on their way to the sea and landed face-down in the sand. They're the ones who never figured out the rules for getting along in life, from the basics (like rule 2476 from The Nerd's Guide to Successful Social Interaction: Just because you want to correct someone's grammar doesn't mean that you should), to the more complex (see rule 83756: Taxidermy and first dates rarely mix).
If you're curious as to your place on the Nerd-Geek-Dork continuum, OKCupid.com has a test that will reveal your nerd/geek/dork score (sample question: "Throughout this test, have you been trying to figure out which each question is testing for?"). I'm 91% pure nerd, and just may adopt that as the slogan for this blog.
*It's not.
**Far.
Tagged with
geek,
dork,
definitions
| 
JENNIFER GARDY 
Comments
what an interesting and funny article! I thought there was a very fine line between nerd, geek, and dork, but you've been able to distinct the 3 words really well :D
I'm hating myself for writing this, but in regards to it not being possible to have a non-overnight transpacific commercial flight:
1) The earth is traveling at 1666km/hr at the equator (slower if you go North/South). 2) The cruising speed of your average transpacific carrier is 800-900km/hr. 3) The distance from Beijing to Vancouver (for example) is ~8514km. 4) Summer time - longer days.
Nerds, start your calculators...
Oh my...if this is how beautiful post-docs/grad students are I may actually have to change my mind and continue on in Microbiology in grad school.
Great writing by the way. It's been pretty entertaining to read.
I am surprised at your "it's not" answer to the trans-Pacific flight question. Unless I am misunderstanding your question, I would expect flight AC 1 leaving Vancouver at 12:30 and arriving in Tokyo at 15:20 to fit the bill. Its local time all along its route should be between 11:30 and 16:30, even when it crosses the date line.
A more interesting question is, can an overnight flight across the Atlantic take place entirely in daylight? The answer to this is "yes": a Vancouver-London flight leaving at 18:00 on around Jun 21 will often fly far enough north to get midnight sun.
I guess as a high school team chess player I would be a dork, except I did end up learning some social skills (minimal I assure you but adequate to get by). I also did get a notation on my grade 9 report card, something about the teacher never having met a student who loved to learn more than mysely. But enough about me, it would be dorkish to be self centred. By my definition a dork is anyone who is intensely into sci-fi and not science. If you can name all the actors who ever played Dr Who but can't give a plausible explanation of the special theory of relativity, you're a dork in my dictionary.
Doh! While writing this column I forgot an important word in the original transpac flight question - "eastbound"!. The original question that I meant to recapitulate here was posed in this thread on FlyerTalk. Check out the responses there for people's verdicts.
And I just realized that unintentional omission of "eastbound" made a perfect nerd test in and of itself. Juxx and drc138, let us embrace in a group nerd hug! We are cut from the same cloth! And it's probably plaid! Go nerds, go!
I take a nerd test and come out Joe Normal. Christ I don't fit in anywhere.
78 % Nerd, 52% Geek, 39% Dork
But being a nerd, I had pretty much had that figured out
nerds= inteligent + not good looking
blessed = inteligent + pretty
A touch. A touch. I do confess it! I see there will be no stumping you on meaningless minutiae. *puts his intellectual gauntlet back on (on the wrong hand) and slinks away*
PS: Woohoo! I'm a 'Cool Nerd'!
I take umbrage at my particular brand of nerd-dom being excluded from consideration! I am a proud and avowed wonk, one of the few in the decidedly uncelibate monastic order that would not question how far one can throw a car with a trebuchet, but how to phrase the declaration of intent that presages a hurled automobile! Do I go with classic liberalism (no taxation without representation, or a cadillac through your front door) or go the communist route and lead my proletarian brothers in a destructive orgy of Volga-tossing?
In all seriousness, though, there actually is a term for how the lovely miss defines nerd. Before gender became a PC issue, such people were called "Renaissance Men". The motto?
"It's not enough to know that the earth orbits the sun, you have to get invited to cocktail parties to brag about how you figured it out".
I have had this disscussion countless times on various programming/tech/geek forums and everyone's definition is always a little different.
Personally a geek is someone who appreciates science/technology and essentially eats, sleeps and breathe's solving real problems.
A nerd on the other hand is someone who plays video games, Dungeons and Dragons and doesn't bathe or has horrible hygiene or fashion sense. They are at the bottom of the social ladder.
We agree some what on the definition of a dork. Faux pas is right.
These people can be extremely popular, good looking people who just never grew up or care about others feelings or emotions, but are still appreciated based on their cool factor or good looks.
I also consider intellectuals who constantly correct others in non-appropriate contexts, such as someone correcting my horrible spelling and grammar. :P
I try my best to sound like English is my native language, but honestly, I'm a software developer and except a computer to catch all my syntactical errors and my readers to interpret my grammar.
Cheers,
Alex
Does anybody else find Jennifer Grady to be MASSIVELY hot?
Joes Technicality sez: Does anybody else find Jennifer Grady to be MASSIVELY hot?
No. Nice picture though.
Most of this writting is insufferable. Learn something from Hemmingway and simplify.
Thanks for the article. I now know that I'm a nerd. I always knew I'm a little different from others. It's true that people like us are successful and I'm your regular "millionaire next door". But this nerd thing is a lonely lonely trip. It's very difficult to find a matching mate, girls are very intimated by me. I've been reading the same book for the past 15 years and I'm starting to get it. It's the bible. Now, that's a real challenge for everyone here.
Nice article Ms. Grady, but I think you're wrong in defining 'nerd' as a generalist. 'Nerd' refers to someone like a geek but with primarily scientific interests. Nerds are also more conservative, in both thought and behaviour. Geeks, on the other hand, have broader (perhaps weirder) interests, and possess a touch of freakiness and genius.
I also disagree that 'nerd' is a subset of 'geek' - they are rather two variations on a common theme which might best be expressed by the Japanese term 'otaku'.
Anyway, geeks are sexier than nerds - I think the Otaku Sexiness Spectrum looks something like: geek - nerd - dork - dweeb
I took that quiz on my blog quite a while ago and ended up
Modern, Cool Nerd
73 % Nerd, 52% Geek, 47% Dork
I can live with that.
Interesting topic but way too long...need to simplify. I had to skip most of it or else I would have already fell asleep (just like some of those long boring talks that you have talked about in your previous entry).
Learn something from Tolstoy and don't simplify your writing.
Hemingway is good in his way but who wants to always read literature like - "The old man saw the fish. He killed the fish, several dreary chapters later. The end."
or "I went to the bullfights. They killed the bull. Aren't we all so macho. The end."
To echo Max's commnt, I think the author needs to consult other online sites that offer a better difference between the "nerd" and the "geek". In my (four) eyes, nerds and geeks are two wholy different classes of people.
Joe Nerdlinger writes:
"Joes Technicality sez: Does anybody else find Jennifer Grady to be MASSIVELY hot?
No. Nice picture though.
Most of this writting is insufferable. Learn something from Hemmingway and simplify."
Aww... sounds like somebody has a itsie witsie crush on Jennifer Grady! I can just imagine you sitting behind her in class yanking her hair braids...
Oh! And before I forget, if we're suggesting styles of famous authors to mimick Can I throw in some in?
How about Kurt Vonegut Jr.?
"Listen. Nerd Girl came unstuck in time. Like many Nerds she was plucked out of her sleep one night in a timewarp and taken by the Tralfamadorians to a convention on their planet..."
Or how about shakespeare?
"To research or not to 'search: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to study,
The particle accelerators and labs costing outrageous fortune,
Or to take notes amidst a sea of students,
And by test taking beat them? To graduate: to sleep;
Some more; And by sleep to say we end
The all-nighters and the thousand practice questions!
To replicate DNA in flesh, hair too, 'tis a path to convocation!
Devoutly to be wish'd. To graduate, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub..."
Ooh! Ooh! Dr. Seuss!
"Grady, the Lady, she sat at her board
Keying away what seemed word after word,
The silly posters had posted some silly stuff,
About authors and writing and some being gruff,
Posts about grading and hotness and tasks,
But not word one about erlenmeyer flasks.
And while some posters posts had been quiet citric,
It just went to show that everyone's a critic."
what's your bookshelf? Mine: Neuroanatomy through clinical cases, brain (introduction), The God Delusion, Very Short Introductions ( science and religion, the philosohoy of science, African History, Existentialism, Cosmology, The Elements), dictionary
I'm not listing this to be pretentious or a bombastic ass. Just curious.
I find your writing enjoyable. I especially agree with your given reason for buying an iPhone (I myself am waiting for the Blackberry Curve 8900).
Keep it up =)
Nerd girl, you are cool. But I think you're forgetting (or de-emphasizing) the great population of non-technical nerd-dom. As a law nerd--attending your own, precious UBC no less--I take umbrage.
Anyway, good work, and thanks for the Nerd Quiz: I am also 91% nerd.
Lates.
Massively hot indeed! Disregard the criticism; these dudes were drawn by your photo, and probably tell their friends they buy Playboy for the articles.
BYW.. I won't take the test, because I could care less. Thanks for the entertaining read though.
Modern, Cool Nerd. 74% Nerd, 52% Geek, 43% Dork.
I figured I was on the Nerd to dork line... didn't know it was cool though. In fact I still doubt it's cool. I'm just easy going and figure maybe that's where it's channeling the "cool" form. Fair enough.
Good article, I'll agree with Tim. Could have used a section specifying different genres of nerdom... but you're writing an article on it, not a thesis.
nerdfighters ftw!
I think we all just need to go and check out YouTube sensation John & Hank Green, the founding fathers of brotherhood 2.0, and all the nerdiness that can be found there... http://www.youtube.com/user/vlogbrothers
Their movement, NerdFighting, is one of my favourite communities of internet nerds ever. With 373 videos as of today, I suggest you start with the Must See Video playlist, then go back to January 1, 2007 and work through to today... but then again, I'm a total nerd when it comes to all things b2.0.
Check out their condensed videos of the first couple weeks to get a taste of the brothers' humor. I'm sure anynerd will approve and... awesome post!
dftba!
kd
Oh Nerd Girl:
You persistently err in your use of the general singular, e.g. "a pure geek tends to focus their dogged pursuit", or "as a result of the young nerd focusing on their intellectual betterment", etc.
You mate a singular subject ('the geek') and a plural object ('their pursuit').
Perhaps your P.C. Canuck training prevents you from properly conjugating the general singular with 'his,' e.g. "a pure geek tends to focus on his dogged pursuit." This is the proper way.
But respecting your piety, then, an easy way to avoid your error is by using the plural general, e.g. "pure geeks tend to focus on their dogged pursuit"; or even better, "pure geeks tend to focus on the pursuit."
Good luck,
Instead of just replacing "their" to "his", I believe the PC+grammatically correct method is using "his or her".
Anyways these two xkcd comics captures the spirit of the blog quite nicely
http://xkcd.com/173/
http://xkcd.com/356/
Yes. I admit... I have thoroughly enjoyed this blog. Hard to admit as I still have deep seated fears that if I am caught reading this blog, that I would be singled out as a dork/geek/nerd and thrown into a locker by an unseen jock due to my extensive nearsightedness... lol.
I loved the definitions of dork/geek/nerd and admittedly appreciate that a few women in my past have taken me under their tutelage and helped me to graduate to nerdom. Without them, I would be hopelessly mired up to my shoulders on that same sandy beach... my thanks to them for those acts of kindness.
BTW... it is hard to shed the colors of ones core... my friends said I was so geeky last weekend.. looking for a new desk with friends, and I told the sales girl, "I am really coveting that desk, how much is it?". Needless to say, they laughed out loud at my expense. Sigh. these are the daily challenges of the life of a nerd.. :-)
(I know soo geeky adding a happy face at the end)
@Morgan: Ah, the wonk. Good one! There were, sadly, several sub-orders of nerds that I didn't have room to include, but know that the wonks, boffins and anoraks of the world are always welcome here in NerdGirl's corner of the interweb.
@Avi: You're filling in for this column if I ever go on vacation! The Vonnegut was genius.
@Mark: Amongst the books on my desk at work right now (I have a little library of science books that labmates are welcome to borrow): The Coming Plague, Fermat's Last Theorem, Genome: The Autobiography of a Species in 23 Chapters, The Strange Theory of Light and Matter, and The Andromeda Strain. At home I try and focus my reading on non-scientific interests, so I've got quite a few language books lying around (French, German, Ukrainian, Cantonese), a LOT of cookbooks (it's like lab work, but you can eat it!), and a lot of fiction, mostly from Canadian authors.
@tim,queensgrad: At the moment, I write what I know, ergo the emphasis on science. If any UBC folks want to indoctrinate me into the secret nerdy ways of their departments, however, I'm game. Hook a nerd up!
@nerdfighters ftw: I was not aware of nerdfighting before, however I have a really, really excellent happy dance. Actually, I have quite a few. I'm in. DFTBA!
is it just me or has anyone else realized the percentages from the quiz dont add up...
Just remember, we wonks end up being the completely unqualified people determining whether or not your reasearch gets funded! Let the bribery begin!
Note to any science-based nerd trying to bribe a wonk into a research grant: never underestimate the LCF*! If your research cannot translate into a cool gizmo, or something to brag about at a cocktail party, your chances of success are exponentially reduced.
*LCF, abbr.,n., Look Cool Factor. Origin: NATO Forces, West Germany circa 1985. Crucial determinant in the decision making process. Most commonly increased by large, complex machinery, however some sociological phenomina result in increased LCF due to mating habits (IE impressing women by giving candy to starving children).
Ah, Grammar Geek (a.k.a. Misguided Grammar Pedant). Singular "they" has a long and noble history. But hey, nice try.
I took the OKCupid test, but by their definition they can never really make a test to see whether people are geeks. They asked me if there were any movies I could quote in full, but in order to get accurate scores for me, they would have had to ask:
Can you quote passage from Thus Spoke Zarathustra in full?
Do you read the full text of legal acts and imporant judicial rulings out of interest?
Have you ever, because of your poor memory, had to re-derive for yourself how to find the stable outcome of a Markov chain to find the ratio of two seventeenth degree polynomials in order to get a formula to figure out how to evaluate which of two items is better for your character in a video game?
Questions like this would probably have inflated my scores significantly.
The "long and noble history" of the singular they doesn't stop it from being imprecise.
Much like the serial comma or the proper use of apostrophes, the use of distinctly singular pronouns adds meaning without complexity. The singular they necessarily creates ambiguity.
While the language may well contain a singular they, a cursory examination of logic would demonstrate that it shouldn't.
Nerd girl
I love the blog. It is a fine balance: the self-deprecation of extraordinarily learned people such as yourself often goes too far into neurotic self-absorption, which is sort of sad rather than amusing. To laugh at such people almost seems mean. You've managed this well, but you seem too modest: a post-doc at UBC isn't an easy gig to land, so hat's off to you. Your lampoon of the conference is universal, and I should tell you does not only apply to those put on in the scientific community. Should you find that the lab does not suit, I see possibilities in sharing your wry scientific insights with broader audiences as a writer. Heaven knows journalists who actually have technical knowledge are much-needed.
This nerd-geek-dork trichotomy has always been a tough one for me. I've always fancied myself a poster-boy for nerd-dom and have at various times made all the usual gaffes: correcting poor grammar, blowing away the field at Trivial Pursuit, stating a blunt opinion when judicious application of the 'white lie' is more a propos, and so on. Although, I have at times strayed to the other side of the tracks into geek-ville. I am too athletic and socially adept to actually be a dork, although I often feel like one in any case - as nerds are inclined.
I think you've made these distinctions nicely, and tend to agree with where you've drawn the lines. As these are totally vernacular pejorative terms I think that a debate over which definition of either is 'right' or 'wrong' is sort of pointless, although the ubiquity with which these terms are employed in common parlance does suggest the need for some agreement on what they actually mean. Again, only a nerd would really care. I cringe how frequently terms such as penultimate (as a superlative), ironic (as "tragic" or "unfortunate"), and fulsome (as if to say "thorough") are incorrectly applied in a very public manner, so correctness does not seem to be much of a priority in our lexicon these days.
Keep writing these please. I would like to hear your thoughts on teaching undergraduates. As this would entail a depiction of young, unaccomplished, and emotionally fragile people you may judge this a subject too delicate for print, but I'd love to read it!
Gregarious jock nerd: just stop the charade and ask Jennifer's phone number.
For all the other repressed, in the closet nerds out there...
Let me begin by saying that I had read the entire World Book Encyclopedia before the age of 10. I had the burning desire to know everything... and this was the only available source in my house (pre-internet...) Anything really interesting would require a covert trip to the local library for periodicals on the subject... the local librarian thus became my only confidante.
At the same time I was in tune enough with the outside world enough to know that reading encyclopedias at 5:00 am was not something my 8 yr old friends did and thus in order to not descend into geekdom or a further slide to dorkdom I kept this desire secret. I was however unable to repress my innate nerdiness when faced with a test, so I consistently scored in the top 3 of my class... and in high school at the top of my class. This was passed off amazingly by my friends ands family as a mere eccentricity as I exhibited no other outward sign of my nerdiness. I was also male athlete of the year in my graduating class, and captain of the high school basketball team... but the nerds in my class knew my horrid secret, they could tell when I was mocking them that I wanted in on their discussions of Stephen Hawking's latest book, Carl Sagan's ideas, or the Drake Equation. It was sort of reverse discrimination... the popular jock who had a very deep but repressed nerd factor. One especially cruel nerd was an especially intuitive female who pierced my active camoflage and tortured me through two years of high school... but that is too long to address here.
My wife found out about my secret nerdiness (before she married me) and gets that knowing smirk on her face when she catches me on Skeptics.com, SETI.com, et al. at 2 am instead of surfing porn like every other self respecting 30 something married male.
Sadly I rejected my true desire to study a pure science degree for the much more practical path of engineering.
Now with the internet I can anonymously gratify my deep longing to know everything before I die... and still have the respect of my friends and family...
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha !!!! :-)
I apologize for my awkward writing style that has developed from writing too in too much technicalese over the past years. I thing I've promised myself in true nerd fashion to rectify through an online writing seminar.
great blog btw.. it is now added to my secret favorites in an un-named notepad file that no-one else in my family bothers to look at.
Define pacific.
Great circle routes from North/South Korea or if Russia has an airport on the tip to say, Anchorage, AK, probably are possible in all daylight hours, especially during the midnight sun season, with extended sunlight.
I mean, 40 miles? We should be able to do that in daylight.
Depending on how you define airports/landing strips, whether you require regularly scheduled flights (which don't tend to maximize the daylight parameters), commercial jet versus private jet/military, customs requirements, etc.
There is also the combination of dork and geek personality traits which is well described by Asperger's syndrome which is on the autism spectrum. Or as I have been known to call it: ANS, for Anti-social Nerd Syndrome.
Thinking about the daylight transpacific flight, made me think of a flight I took many years ago. I believe it was on a Boeing 707. It left Athens, Greece at noon and arrived at JFK in New York at 5 PM -- local times.
It was h*ll, because I did not sleep at all and had been up more than 24 hours when I reached customs. Ick. Thinking back on my answers to the customs inspector later, I realized I got the name of my college wrong!
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