Hi Allison,

Overall, some good advice for grads. On one point, though, I disagree with your guidance to new grads: get an offer, and then negotiate it upwards. Very risky proposition, for a few reasons:

1: If you have done your homework and research, as suggested, then you should be able to assess if it is a fair and competitive package for a grad. If it is, then why would you tell the grad to go and ask for more? What about get in there and prove your worth, then at your first review position for a increase based on performance merit.

2. If the grad is successful in twisting the arm of the employer to up the ante right away, the grad now has some big shoes and expectations to fill. When starting a new job, especially the first job of your career, it would be wiser to keep expectations realistic, and give yourself time to learn the organization, people, role, etc. especially during the first 3-6 months.

That is all very true however it is research that you should have done well before applying. Depending on the competition for the position you may not have a couple days. You should be decided on whether the job and all of its perks/salary/hours etc. are for you before you ever receive that call.

Decent advice but there is no hard and fast rule for salary negotiations. It is something you have to feel your way through.

Sometimes you will get into situations where you already have the job before getting to salary negotiation. If you are in this situation, and if you have skills critically needed or the org is flush with cash, you then have the upper hand. But don't get greedy! When times get tough, the tallest blades of grass are the first to be cut.

I would say that it's more important to look at where the position will lead you in 3-5 years. If you get stuck in a dead-end job with a high salary/hourly wage, you may be at a disadvantage if you want to advance to some bigger goal and you are up against people that trained themselves well in better, but lower paying jobs.

I think it is awful for anyone to give advice in this economy to think they can 'negotiate' salary, and thus risk loosing a job opportunity.

I recently graduated from a prestigious Canadian University and it has taken me 18 months to find meaningful employment and, of my graduating class, maybe 10% of us have good jobs. My roommate even has a master’s degree and is presently managing a retail store.

Be sensitive to the economy and give students more pragmatic advice about landing a job after graduating, or give them advice on how to apply for unemployment.

Sorry to be brutal but it’s a lot tougher out there than you think.

Bad advice, but what I would expect from the "me generation". Many grads have never worked in the corporate world, and getting a theoretical degree is no match for practical experience. You also assume that jobs are abundant and grads can pick and choose. As a recent grad in Vancouver, I can tell you that this is not true. My advice: take what you can get and learn how the corporate world works. Get the practical experience that is invaluable, then you can start to be choosy. A university degree does not mean you don't start at the bottom of the ladder. If you start negotiating on salary with your first job, your resume may end up in the bin. While it is good to be confident, don't be cocky.

Wow, this is surprisingly terrible advice. This is a brutal job market and as such many companies literally have their pick of employees - and recent grads, many of whom lack significant job experience in the field in which they are trying to find employment, are hardly the ones in demand. This advice makes much more sense for seasoned corporate warriors, who (theoretically) have proven experience or a track record that makes them attractive to employers. Most students are particularly interchangable to employers, and people who cause problems before they are even hired do not ingratiate themselves to their new employers.

Have you ever even had a real job? Maybe Tara Orchard should have written this article.

If you are a graduate (as the headline suggests), you would be a FOOL to be hardnosed.

Employers who hire new grads are looking for one thing and one thing only: Lower compensation costs. If they are looking for a star, they will look for an experienced star; not some kid (no offense meant) out of school with little to no experience and a big chip on their shoulder.

I fully agree that salary needs to be negotiated, and hard. However, that is only when YOU have something the company really needs. New graduates have nothing but classroom theory, idealist views and (hopefully) youthful energy.

If I may be so humble to say, everyone should take my approach...Get the first job, bust your butt; stay there for a year or two MAX. Get the next job with a much higher pay, do the same. After a couple of this "flips" (as I like to call them), you will be in BIG demand and able to charge premiums for your services.

Just PLEASE remember, despite the authors idea, a new grad brings little to the table. Pay your dues, get the experience, then get the fat salary...

Good Luck!

Oh...One more thing...The education doesn't stop when you're finished school. Depending on your industry, there is probably various certifications that can and should be sought. Makes you out to be a go-getter and again, warrants your premium demands.

Not to slam Allison specifically, but this dated thinking is indicative of larger problems in the HR field.

Many hiring officers have difficulty extrapolating beyond predefined goals (for example, I had to explain to one why a MA was equal or superior to a community college degree in the same field...) and lack the imagination to see people other than themselves succeeding in employment - people who may not thrive on empty corporate rhetoric, but work hard and actually produce, learn, and innovate.

Very few grads have the poise (or verbal ability) required to negotiate salary and benefits, let alone the opportunity... I agree with above commenters that the focus needs to be on finding work commensurate with one's skills, regardless of pay, etc. In other words, how do bright grads capitalize on their academic success by translating it into career potential? The previous article (about her sister wooing a company) was helpful, if disappointing in its conclusion that potential workers are expected to volunteer first, face multiple rejections, and act like an entry-level job is the apex of fulfillment. If that's what it takes...

Finally, Jennifer, you and your roommate are not alone. I have an MA and work temp jobs that pay less than what I made before I finished my undergraduate degree (in the same field). We need to speak out about this disconnect between education and employability to effect change.

Wow, this is pretty bad advice overall. I will say that I work in HR and do a lot of recruiting of new grads, and I am part of what some may call the "me generation". First of all, if you are a new grad who has been working in customer service type positions, you may have the education, but that does not mean that you are fully qualified with the position. Trying to negotiate will only get you two places: either you will eventually accept the offer and you will be viewed as someone that will cause trouble, or they will receind the offer. Both options are not very good. Now, if you have co-op experience in your field, they you will probably have more room to negotiate, but don't expect to get thousands more.
Another thing that I would like to point out is that this is a very hard job market. When I graduated a few years ago, times were good and it was still hard to find a job. Times are harder now, and to have a job is better than to not have one. First, you will develop skills that you did not previously have, which will look more favorable to future employers. No one wants to hire someone that sat around for a year after university. Second, once you are in a company, you never know what types of opportunities are available. You have to be persistent. Plus, if you have a job and you get a better one, then you can quit! There is nothing wrong with bettering yourself. You may also be in a better position to bargain with the new company once you are employed.

I would also like to address TDF's comment. While it is hard for me to comment on the particular field that you are in, since it is not mentioned, I will point out that when we, as HR people, set out to hire someone, we have minimum requirements that we are looking for. If, for example, a bachelors degree is required, then that is the minimum. Someone with a masters degree is a great candidate, but that does not necessarily mean they will get more money because they have more education. Exceeding a requirement does not equal better qualified in all cases. I have seen many cases in positions that I recruit for where people with a masters degree are simply looking for more money than the company is able to pay for the skills required of that position. That doesn't mean that the company is bad, or that the candidate is bad either. Simply their end goals are not in line, which is fine.

Finally, salary indicators on career websites are great, but they use a very large amount of data that is not always the most accurate. This is a useful tool as a starting point, but big companies hire compensation people to look at data and determine their salaries. It is not simply a number that is picked at random. They may have different ways of determining salary, but ultimately a lot of work has gone into that.

After reading the article and the comments, here is my advice. The experience for recent grads will be very different depending on your program, and which field you’re looking to enter. As a recent grad, you really have to know and research what the market situation is for your field. Doing your homework is very important. Your career center can help you with that.
I work for a company that hires a lot of recent grads every year and for us, this is the best way to grow our business and train future leaders. When recent grads join our firm, we help them translate what they have learned in school into practical experience. While our starting salary is competitive, it is not negotiable. The second year salary is based on the individual performance during the first year and it is up to you to go after a higher salary within the salary range. Along with a salary increase, the second years comes with an increase in challenges and responsibilities. We are there to support your career, and help build your success.
The salary however, is only one part of the compensation package. I always recommend looking at the entire compensation package when it comes to making the decision of where to start your career. When your future employer is, for example, offering you fantastic training, a chance to volunteer in your community, and paying for your gym membership as part of its fitness program, these are all great benefits that must be considered while looking at the total compensation package.
Last comment, every time we have an open position for campus candidates, we receive many many applications. If you are selected for the job, it is because you are a well-rounded student with the right education, and because we know you’ll be a great addition to the team. When we are make an offer, we are sure of our choice and we want our students to be sure of their choice as well!

Truly bad advice in this job market. If I had a student try this sort of nonsense I'd withdraw the offer and grab the next resume from the pile.

I agree with Isabelle. It really depends on the program you graduate from. I will be graduating this year from U of T Engineering (Electrical) and I have to be honest that most of my friends have received multiple offers and that is why I find some of the advice offered on this blog useful.

Economy fluctuates and one has to respect any offer one receives, especially during the recession. But that does not mean you accept less for the quality of work you know you will be producing and the amount of effort you have put in all these past years. To make sure your employer is aware of this, I think it is critical to have developed communication skills so one is able to translate all these experiences and relate it to the position. If you put forth your offer in a professional manner (and showing you have considered all related elements), the company is more likely to impressed than to see you as "me generation" or "arrogant".

Salary negotiations are tough and not easy to pull off. However, when approached in the right manner, it is just another conversation like the interview. Good luck!

As a newly employed university grad, I have to agree with the other posters: don't try and negotiate your salary if this is your first "career" opportunity. Obviously, have respect for your own capabilities, but also be realistic: everybody's got a BA these days and what counts most is experience. As long as the salary is enough for you to support yourself, the most important thing is whether it will give you solid experience in your field of interest.

I was lucky enough to find a good job with decent pay after six weeks of searching. I have an advanced degree in English and some solid work experience in the form of co-op and part-time jobs under my belt. I fully expect to change jobs several times in the next few years, working my way up as I go. To new grads, I would advise that you have confidence in your ability to prove yourself in the workplace: if you work hard enough, the salary you want will come.